In an affidavit submitted to the Federal Court dated 30 January 2019, ASIC solicitor Tristan Moseby said he sought orders for documents relating to whether anyone was misled or deceived by Dover’s Client Protection Policy or suffered loss as a result of being misled or deceived by the CPP.
The affidavit was made in support of ASIC’s opposition to a discovery application filed by Dover Financial and its director Terry McMaster on 21 December 2018.
ASIC’s investigation was done in collaboration with James McAllister-Harris, a lawyer in ASIC’s financial services enforcement team.
But in the affidavit, Mr Moseby said he was informed by Mr McAllister-Harris that, based on his enquiries with ASIC team members to date, it is “very unlikely” that ASIC has possession of any documents that would show anyone had been misled, deceived or suffered loss as a result of any reliance on the CPP at any time after 25 September 2015.
“Based on my involvement in this matter to date, I am also not presently aware of any documents tending to show that any person has been subjectively misled or deceived by the CPP, or has suffered loss as a result of any reliance on the CPP, during the relevant period the subject of this proceeding,” Mr Moseby said.
The affidavit noted Mr McAllister-Harris had spent about 50 hours to date in relation to the investigation, and that Mr Moseby had spent around eight hours.
As for further work in relation to the investigation, Mr Moseby said it would require ASIC about another 236 hours, or two full-time ASIC staff members to spend 20 working days to complete the work in response to Dover’s discovery application.
He also said ASIC identified 4,000 documents that may be relevant, and that the figure is likely higher if it is required to carry out further searches across its case managements databases.
Back in September 2018, Mr McMaster argued that Dover was fully compliant and that ASIC made no complaints about its CPP during a 2016 audit.
Dover Financial shut down its AFSL in June 2018 following an agreement with ASIC.
More to come.
Don’t go all shy on us now Terry lol
Let’s hear about your other court cases
MrAnonymous Terry is keeping very quiet. Starting to get to close to the bone.
One has to wonder why Terry is unloading his Assets lol
But CBA is getting help from ASIC for a press release – and Kell is having lunch with the CBA board, using the free QANTAS lounge and joining Aussie Super to get Qantas points. So why is it Terry should be worried about his assets? Clearly ASIC is corrupt or outstanding at stupid. Your call.
How many other court cases are going on that involves McMaster. Please tell us Terry. We like to hear the truth for once.
What are you talking about? Lol
What a clown McMaster is. He better read why he is going to the Federal Court in Melbourne on June 12/13.
the CPP?… which is on the asic website are you not keeping up?
[b]Part of the cover up.[/b] “The truth will out”.[b]
This way too big[/b] – 400+ adviser businesses, probably [at least] 2000-3000 other employees, para-planners, subcontractors, and service providers, etc; probably 2000-5000 associated family members; 15,000-20,000 clients affected immediately before EoFY; and [b]the waves of effected keep rippling outwards.[/b]
Disgusting, sanctimonious, “Holier than thou”, money grubbing, self serving conduct by some [especially] “Big 6” Platforms and Fund Managers, deliberately seeking to detach [especially grandfathered] clients from Advisers and require all sorts of convoluted retention processes [read: most rapaciously, CFS].
There will undoubtedly be [albeit hidden and probably ignored] suicides, acts of revenge, etc.
Unfortunately, the politically responsible will be long gone, probably in another cushy Government job or feeding off their bloated Commonwealth Superannuation by the time the truth comes out. Bureaucrats will be shunted sideways, and IMO, thousands of emails and documents will “disappear” due to “computer glitches”. “The System” will defend itself until it is torn asunder. Just watch…
I eagerly await hearing of multiple Freedom of Information Applications for internal ASIC documentation, and subsequent AAT complaints.
The Australian system is badly, [b]badly, BADLY[/b] structured, corrupt, “misregulated”, and incentivises all the wrong things. [b]ALL this was easily foreseen 15-20 years ago[/b] by anyone who had an idea of principle based organisational structuring, correct incentives, naturally embedded transparency, and self reinforcing integrity.
And who really loses in the end?!?
I think when they used the term ”Orwellian” they probably meant ”Draconian”, and is there a more Orwellian AND Draconian body than ASIC?
I am out…. preparing to walk away. This farce has laid bare the absolutely sick system of lies and bureaucratic anti-small business structures. Tainted report based on very little actual evidence. ASIC’s basis for prior attacks biased by use of already known poor files… to then justify their position and even their very existence. Corruption does not need $.. a corrupt attitude/environment/behaviour is sufficient. that a Judge can allow personal bias and attitudes to affect the outcome beggars belief. That a report can fail to consider ramifications of recommendations on society and the negative impact on clients – the very people it was meant to help – shows me that there was an agenda (unpublished) from the start to be seen to give the banks a small kick whilst giving the ISN a huge lift and the banks a way back without real hardship. How many small advice practices will now go under? How many advisers like me, will suffer mental breakdowns over their new future? This has come on top of FASEA (another farce in implementation) which followed LIF. the triple wammy. what has Hayne done to the value of our practices? Major damage, that’s what. For what benefit? We need more Terry McMasters to stand up and tell ASIC, pollies and their “Sir Humphrey’s” and the FSC/FPA/AFA/AIOFP/ISN what a terrible position our industry is now in owing to their inaction and acceptance of a rubbish regulator for years. How does the industry come back from this such that clients who desperately need help can actually get proper help? Certainly cannot get it from industry funds. I feel absolutely betrayed. 29yrs in this industry. Over it.
almost all advisers with similar tenure to yours is feeling the same way.
agree totally. the stress and mental health on advisers and there family. asic dont care… they want jobs working for the banks in future or industry super funds.
I’d suggest tempering your collective outrage and wait for the court case to play out. IMO the article merely presents selected information without context and without any discussion or application of the law. As much as I sympathise with AR’s, this may not play out the way you hope or expect.
oh! so you think in your wisdom, we should do what Jesus did and turn the other cheek, while being publicly vilified, torn to shreds, taking away our basic human rights as people to live in a dignified manner.
Did I get that right?
NO! we want and eye for an eye. and we just don’t want it, we are going to violently RIP it out.
you: “merely presents selected information without context and without any discussion or application of the law” is what you just wrote….. That is exactly what has just happened to us in the Royal Commission, FASEA, LIF, and FOFA Grandfathering !!!
the LAW is an ASS the idiot lawyers are in charge.
No, the court case will be even better. It will expose some very inconvenient facts which ASIC would prefer to be kept hidden.
A one-sided version of the information without context is exactly what happened at the RC. Just ask Andrew Smith and Adam Palmer who wern’t able to defend themselves. ASIC and the RC suppressed compliance reports which showed both Adam and Andrew produced excellent work whilst at Dover.
We can all collectively temper our outrage towards ASIC after the court case…..
Sorry, which court case are you referring to? Unless I’ve missed something ASIC’s case against Dover in the federal court doesn’t have anything to do with these individual advisers. Please explain…
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ifa.com.au/news/26065-asic-gave-ex-dover-adviser-thumbs-up-while-at-amp/amp
The commenter above was pointing out that ASIC provided the RC with a one-sided (negative) narrative on Dover and its compliance record in order to justify their unfair treatment of their staff, 400 advisers and thousands of clients when ASIC had never raised any issues with Dover themselves during the 2 years prior in which they were conducting an audit. It amounts to a massive abuse of power any way you look at it.
Yes, I made the comment above. Correct. ASICs case against Dover only relates to the CPP (ASIC are suing Dover on the grounds that the CPP was misleading and deceptive). Yes, the same CPP which caused clients exactly $0.00 in losses, the same CPP which ASIC had in their possession for two years but never said anything, the same CPP which ASIC signed off as ‘compliant’ as part their audit of 100s of adviser SOAs, the same CPP which was reviewed by 5 separate law firms (including Holley Nethercote, ASICs preferred compliance lawyers).
Shall I continue? I hope you’re not advocating for ASIC…. How can you possibly defend them?
Its a strict liability offence. If you breach the section you’re done. Do you think the tax office lets people know when they’re being monitored for tax avoidance for example? Does getting a legal opinion that turns out to be wrong excuse you if a court finds you guilty? None of this is relevant. What is relevant is the provisions of the CPP and whether they breached the law. That is all.
why didn’t asic do something about the CPP when they had it with them for over 2 years. if they had an issue or concern about something that was detrimental to clients and the public, should they have not raised that concern with Terry immediately?
why wait to ambush him at a royal commission. terry keeps saying he contacted them so many times to get a meeting to see if all was ok. unless there is something sinister
Not true. “Strict Liability” is when there is a factual, measurable effect, or when being required to take an action. “Misleading and Deceptive” is almost entirely subjective, and based on a myriad of perceptions and circumstances, as is “Abuse of Market Power” and “Unconscionable Conduct”.
You are trying to defend the indefensible conduct of a corrupt, dishonest Government Regulator, and the gross misuse of power and position.
New lame logo. Same cruelly conflicted culture. Malicious, mean and manipulative are just a few of the unpleasant adjectives that leapt to mind when one contemplates ASIC.
ASIC’s senior executives bang on publicly for ten months about how bad Dover is. Their media men beg journalists to write “investigations are continuing” and hint that a deeply disturbing financial menace lurks undisclosed in the hidden bowels of Dover.
But we now know ASIC knew no client had been misled or deceived when it handed its CPP files to the Royal Commission; when McMaster was ambushed at the Royal Commission; as McMaster was carted off to the cardiac ward; when the press bayed for his blood the day after; when it shut down Dover; when it lied that McMaster shut down Dover; when it recommended other AFSLs staff away from ex-Dover advisers; when it recommended Dover clients get second opinions on their Dover advices; when it did its best to name and shame.
And we now know ASIC stood mute when the Royal Commission defamed and shamed Palmer and Smith, even though ASIC’s investigations showed both did excellent work at Dover. Why ruin a good story with the truth? But, more pertinently, where did the Royal Commission get its good story from? There can only be one source: ASIC.
ASIC knew what the consequences were for Dover, its staff its advisers and its 60 full university orphaned scholarship holders in HCMC, but ASIC did it anyway.
ASIC misled and deceived the Royal Commission, and the public. ASIC continues to do so to this day. Why did ASIC not tell the truth? Why is ASIC still not telling the truth now?
Why did Mr Hayne and his team of Assisting Counsel not intervene, speak up, correct the false Dover narrative, tell the Dover truth? Why have they not done so since?
Why did Dover, with virtually no client complaints and a clean compliance history get rolled by the Royal Commission and shut down by bank-funded-ASIC? Why did similar sized bank AFSLs (with CFS to this day still charging fees for no service, five years after ASIC suggested it self-report…) with thousands of client complaints and damaged clients escape unharmed and sanction free?
Who is the Orwellian Liar?
And where was the Minister responsible in all this, Kelly O’Dwyer?
When will the ASIC whistle blowers start coming forward?
1. According to a report by “Adviser Ratings”, since 2015, ~40% of AR’s coming TO Dover were from the large institutions, of course bringing their clients and FUM with them.
Just Google “Adviser Ratings” and “Dover” with or without additional keywords, and a myriad of relevant information pops up.
https://www.moneymanagement.com.au/news/financial-planning/more-40-dover-advisers-came-big-licensees.
A few “Words in your shell-like…” from “somewhere” within the “Big 6″, and the infinite resources of the Federal Government are marshalled against the little guy, and someone who has been both successful and outspoken [like T McMaster] about the structure and conduct of the”Da Regulator” is suddenly a target of “The Powers That Be”…
Any reading of articles about Dover’s shutdown will reveal so many excesses, anomalies, and unexplained contradictions in ASIC’s conduct that it is clear that [b]something stank to high heaven[/b].
2. Read about the malice, vengeful conduct, and commercial abuse inflicted on just ONE Dover Adviser by CBA/CFS [long before Dover’s shutdown], with the active and enthusiastic participation of ASIC [and defended by T McMaster].
https://www.financial-rescue.com.au/news/julie-hamilton
https://www.ifa.com.au/news/26088-war-with-dover-destroyed-me-says-ex-adviser
3. This is “Bureaucratic Totalitarianism” – corruption, abuse of power/position, and mismanagement at the highest levels. This is the type of conduct that eventually leads to political violence and revolutions – not to mention bankruptcies, suicides, and family breakdowns.
4. If there is any intent to indeed create competence, integrity, public trust, transparency, and consumer benefit, the entire rotten “Food Chain” structure of AR’s, AFSL’s, ASIC, “Big 6”, Union Funds, etc needs to be restructured. The “system” is badly structured, serves the wrong people, is inherently corrupt, and incentivises the wrong things.
[b]If you want an AR to be[/b] well educated, honest, ethical, responsible, trustworthy, reliable, pro-active, etc, etc; and simultaneously take all the commercial risks and potential public and legal abuse, [b]you cannot bludgeon and treat Advisers like dishonest, recalcitrant children[/b], minor low level clerks, criminals, and/or Call Centre employees; and effectively, slaves to an extraordinarily convoluted, and easily abused system.
No intelligent, competent, adult human being would accept this.
everything you have stated above is 100% accurate. true and correct.
for a highly educated adviser with three masters degrees, who has served the Australian community with dignity, honesty, and honor in an ethical way for nearly 20 years, it is humiliating for me each and everyday to work with the current structure and with a regulator like ASIC.
Agreed, not too many people would have bounced back from the set up we witnessed at the RC. It’s not meant to happen… I don’t personally like McMaster, but I suspect he’s a resilient bastard. Six months ago I was criticizing him on this very forum. I now have to admit I was wrong. I’ve been following this story closely and I believe he has the facts on his side.
Keep watching this story folks… It’s going to keep getting bigger. Regardless of what you think of McMaster, at least he’s out there sticking up for the 400 ex-Dover advisers. He could have easily walked off into the sunset. Have to respect him for that.
Huge questions to be answered down at ASIC…..
AS an ex Dover adviser i would like to see the industry wish list for what a dealer group would look like going forward and all the things that should be done and should be avoided. I would be amazed if the Dover model didn’t tick at least 90% of the boxes. Terry you were crucified at the RC by half truths and half stories with no rebuttle opportunity. I still believe the Dover model was (is) the best model going around, it was just too good for the competition. Keep fighting Terry.
Perhaps the best “dealer group” model is not a dealer group at all, but practice based AFSLs?
Adviser’s who can’t get an AFSL for their practice shouldn’t be running a standalone practice in the first place. They should be employees.
you and many like you.
yet, he is the only one who is out there putting himself up for scrutiny. doing more for advisers single handedly than any or [b]all of the industry[/b] groups put together.
you have my respect and support Terry. $20k is ready for the fighting fund. only $99,980,000 left to raise.
Dover was becoming a threat to the big players so ASIC eliminated them.
The CCP was a blatent contradiction of corps law.you cannot have a client sign a document waiving rights that cannot be waived by law. And then calling that a client protection policy…. legal or not, it renders you no different to the ‘bank scum’ this forum so detests.
The ASIC response is just legal speak for ‘we have not actually received compliant nor audited files, so of course we have no evidence that a client has been harmed.” It is just like saying we have no evidence of someone dying from combustible cladding here in australia…… therefore the cladding is ok!
If McMaster was so sure of this…. why did he decide, yes HE decide to fold the group almost immediately…. ASIC can uld not shut down Dover on the CPP alone, that was easily remediated. no explanation on that one….
The facts are ASIC DID shit down Dover bc of the CPP.
Settle Down, good to see you comment but your facts are incorrect.
ASIC had the CPP in their possession for two years before the RC, they even signed off on the CPP in 100s of SOA audits, all judged to be compliant. No red flags were ever raised.
When ASIC did alert Dover to the fact that they had an issue with the CPP, Dover remediated immediately (compare this to the behavior of the banks). Dover were constantly begging ASIC for feedback, but rarely had a phone call returned (I guess the people at ASIC were too busy being wined and dined by the banks, drafting press releases etc).
Secondly, ASIC notified Dover that they intended to cancel their licence as punishment for the CPP. Dover had no choice in the matter. ASIC then put out a press release stating the opposite, that it was Dovers decision. It was not. This will be coming out in the upcoming court case, be patient…. Dover begged ASIC for a six-month orderly shut down of the AFSL, allowing ARs to find a new home. ASIC reluctantly agreed to an eight week closure, but at the last minute, changed their minds and made it four weeks. Totally malicious. This is where ARs will have a good case with a class-action against ASIC. Be patient. This will all come out.
Don’t worry Settle Down, there is a lot of disinformation out there. The facts will soon be laid bare in court. It will be very difficult for ASIC to defend what happened.
You are right, you can’t have a Client Protection Policy that does that. However, it would have been OK if it was called a Client Information Policy. Semantics much?
“The ASIC response is just legal speak for ‘we have not actually received compliant nor audited files, so of course we have no evidence that a client has been harmed.” ” Don’t forget this is an ASIC initiated court case. Were they not expecting to have to do some research to support their case?
Terry obviously had options re closing it down, but one of the conditions was that he remove himself completely from the business. Why should he do that? And then as we have since found out, the decision to close it immediately was ASICs decision not Terry’s.
And you seriously think this is at the same level of fraud witnessed by the Big 4 and AMP?
ASIC shut down Dover because they needed a scapegoat in this farcical RC. This whole thing was telegraphed. have a read of IFAs print article this month on this very matter and you’ll begin to realise it was a setup.
ASIC DID shut down Dover on the CPP – even though it had been remediated. Read their press release. That’s why this article is so important: ASIC closed down an independent AFSL that had not caused any harm. The AFSLs that did cause harm are still operating today.
I don’t want to form an opinion on this until Tim Mackay has told me what to think.
Ha! Finally someone has the same throughts as me. Someone who is totally self serving, self indulgent and thinks about “his” model rather than others and what the public wants. The Mackay’s have infiltrated the planning debate in Australia, poring poison into the ears of those who will listen. Why is this dude still getting airtime!
Just because his clients can afford a 10k a year fee doesn’t mean anyone elses can. Thinks he is better than everyone else a bug that just needs to be squashed.
Exactly. Planning should be accessible and let the clients decide how they wish to pay. My clients don’t have 10k to pay. I look after then darn well. Both Mackays are NOT the reps of Aussie planners. It’s about time to replace their voice with someone who appreciates ALL business models who have POSITIVE things to say. Glad I’m not the only one not impressed with them..,
I second that, I need both Tim and Claire’s permission on what and how i should think, then i will align my views according to theirs and speak up.
Tim won’t tell you what to think until Claire has told him what to think.
Who is Tim Mackay?
exactly. beautiful. He is a [b]NOBODY [/b]
Terry doesn’t give a shit who he burns
why don’t you expand on that.
I DONT THINK THAT NEEDS EXPLAINING.
iT WILL ALL COME OUT IN the FEDERAL COURT ON 12/13jUNE
Ambulances will be on standby
I might attend. ASIC has shat on over 20000 Dover clients and if it turns out they have no basis (which ASIC now claim they need time to find) it will be ASIC for gold medal of shutting on people. You think Terry is in the same league?
100 Dover advisers left the industry permanently apparently. They must be very angry after these revelations!
it’s just not Dover AR’s who are angry. every adviser should be outraged. this could happen to anyone of us. AND this has to stop now, IMMEDIATELY
IFA editor(s), if you have any contacts in mainstream media, now is the time to bring this to their attention so hopefully they can publish something so the public can see for themselves what ASIC have done here and continue to do my targeting the smaller players.
Dear Terry, can you please go away. You’re spoiling everything which the banks, pollies and I colluded in doing to your business, reputation and 400 advisers within your AFSL.
You were never meant to bounce back from this you serial pest.
“ASIC admits no one was misled by Dover CPP”. Gee that must have hurt…. might have to send the trauma counsellors down there….!
Still haven’t come across a good Dover adviser
You just happened to stumble upon them all the time did you?
Feel free to put your name to your comment next time.
Care to provide your criteria for determining whether they are “good” or not? Your sample size may also be relevant. Or are you just providing further unsubstantiated slander of the 400 plus advisers who ASIC has unfairly treated?
Fair call, small sample size, but comment stands
Hey everyone, it’s Peter Kell!!
How are you going Pete?
Hey “Anon”: how about you list your name?
How many bad advisers have you come across? Feel free to give details about why you didn’t think they were any good.
Hard to tell without seeing the SOA that was never prepared, or the investment that was placed that was linked to the adviser and lost 90% of value with the client not recalling ever moving that investment and the adviser not be able to produce the paperwork to link the clients consent. Good enough for ya
So:
1. You have never seen an SOA from Dover (what you think they were never done)
2. You think money was taken by advisers and put into their own investments – clients lost 90% of the money, can’t recall it ever happening
If this was found to have happened who was the adviser, because it would have had to have been made public.
…so I’ve just got off the phone with [b]Slater and Gordon[/b] and they’ve indicated that they’re willing to look into this matter. Keep your eyes peeling on upcoming press releases in IFA when I know more and how you can get involved. This will extend to all dover employees, advisers, their staff and any clients who feel they’ve been affected. Stay tuned.
what about other advisers who are non Dover who have watched this unfold in horror at what happened with Dover, thinking same could happen to them, and the consequence of the mental trauma ensuing that unfolded on our businesses and family can we join?
I’ve been waiting for this. I’m an ex-Dover adviser, I will be in touch. Sign me up.
**Further update- Slater and Gordon are too greedy and we’re looking at alternative legal firms. This could take time as the ASIC vs Dover civil case has to play out first.
How about Lionel Hutz? Seriously though, wait for the pending case to complete. After that, if favourable and then if it could be proven that ASIC acted with malice or prejudice (or just acted without a reasonable basis) , you would have a very good argument for compensation.
Dover smashed based on perceived potential only. CBA Credit Insurance rip-off left alone. Failure by Narev and/or Comyn to report a “breach of best interests duty” not a problem apparently. $150 million a year in undeserved profit all ok too!!!! It is plain that the real culprit identified by the RC was ASIC.
Well said Patrick. You know your stuff. When are the mainstream media going to pick this story up?
I wonder how this publication picked this up when mainstream haven’t. Far as I know, you can only get copies of an affidavit as a party to litigation or if you put in an application to the court and pay a fee as a non-involved observer??
Terry McMaster and Ken Henry prove what any 12 year old learns on day one at high school: authorities don’t like smart people.
I agree with the comments below. But why is no one commenting on ASIC opposing discovery? Discovery is a basic principle in civil law. Then again, if there is no evidence of client harm, I guess you would not want people to see the basis on which you smashed 400 businesses.
well we need to get to the bottom of that. why?
It has appeared from quite a distance that Dover and their ARs have been poorly treated. Nothing that I have seen in recent months is suggesting otherwise. While I appreciate all those with the “let’s get ASIC” mindset I am dreading how much the consequences of this apparent witch hunt on Dover and the remedial and legal expenses that ASIC may incur is going to increase the funding levy imposed on us.
So just cop it on the chin and roll over? You could get a gig at FPA or AFA I reckon
NO! you sit quietly. WE ARE GONNA GO GET EM. 100M FIGHTING FUND NOW BUTCHER THEM
VENGEFUL REVENGE on ASIC NOW!!!
BUTCHER them Terry
ASIC ruined my career and family!
you will get your turn.
Aren’t ASIC trying to sue Dover? Sounds like they have a really strong case: “Dover didn’t hurt anyone, your honour. We have no evidence. It’s more the vibe…’
In summing up, it’s the constitution, it’s Mabo, it’s justice, it’s law, it’s the vibe and aah no that’s it, it’s the vibe. I rest my case.
Um, that argument won in The Castle so let’s hope they don’t use that
In fairness to ASIC they also had to spend $100,000 on updating their logo (basically making the black ASIC a bolder font) As someone who spent about $250 on a logo that I was very happy with (and I think looks better than ASIC’s) I fully sympathise because why would a sensible and moral organisation want to spend $250 on a logo when they can spend $100,000 collected from advisers?
For 100K you would think at least change the logo into a hand outstretched with another putting dollar notes into it. I wonder if we will also pay for the 236 hours to look over the 4000 documents to find the needle that isnt there, and also will our funding levy also pay for any settlement they need to provide to Dover? What a situation.
99 designs costs bugger all.
ASIC should be disbanded. RC let the country down.
Surely $100k to get change the font on the logo and website is a blatant case of fees for no service. No wonder they missed all the stuff the banks were doing.
Lets remember all of the small businesses affected by ASIC’s corruption here. Mum’s, Dad’s, husbands wives all doing the right thing who were pushed to breaking point by a regulator who constantly goes after the independents, the small end of town or the easy targets whilst always letting their mates in the banks and instos get away with anything they like.
the egregious actions of these large institutions does not even in the slightest remotest way to the small advisers. we are talking about hundreds of thousands of clients affected by these institutions vs 3 or 4 or 6, or in Dover’s case NONE AT ALL.
THIS HAS TO BE THE START OF A BRUTAL ASSAULT ON ASIC
There has also been a great deal of stress placed on individual businesses within the insto licensees. They too have been pushing people and bullying people to breaking point however i feel it is just to make it look like they are doing something.
Terry’s fault was he spoke out too often. he is allowed to. he wasn’t wrong. i didn’t agree with everything he said. but he wasn’t wrong. in fact, he was mostly right.
get ’em Terry.
Sounds like a class action will be popping up against ASIC in the near future and rightly so. Its a pity they have recently spent $100,000 having a minor change made to the font in their logo, as they may need all the money they can get if a class action gets traction. Aside from Dover, ASIC are currently showing their hand through smaller licensees by requesting and reviewing client/adviser files and checking for fee for no service issues, in particular pulling advisers up on trivial things such as annual reviews not being done exactly 12 month to the date and making advisers refund all fees received plus interest. On top of that they are apparently making contact with clients directly, without the adviser’s knowledge to make them aware of the issue they have with the adviser. I fully support the regulator stepping in where there is a genuine fee for no service issue, but things like a review date done exactly 12 months to the date (without questioning the reason such as was client away etc) is over the top and has the ability to destroy some of the small practices. I very much look forward to seeing the services they deliver to advisers now that we are paying them the ASIC levy from our pockets.
If ASIC doesn’t have evidence for their decision to close Dover today, you can assume they will be making back dates documents tomorrow.
If this is true then ASIC has participated in a shockingly gross misuse of power akin to BULLYING. I could not understand why Dover was shut down given their strong compliance culture – often validated by audits performed by ASIC themselves. I’ve always suspected that ASIC were colluding with the Big 4 and AMP to bring down Dover. You only had to look at the increasing movement of ARs from the big end of town to Dover – and with them went the clients and FUA. From what I can tell – Dover’s advice model attracted like-minded advisers who were looking to provide their clients with unbiased advice (no influence from product providers. This was obviously a massive concern for the Big 4 and AMP – so what do you do? You insidiously take out the competition. Problem solved.
I also seem to recall that ASIC issued a media statement advising clients of Dover ARs to basically look for a new adviser and warned other AFS licencees to take extreme caution with authorising ex-Dover ARs. SLANDER!!!!!!
Will ASIC now issue a new media statement admitting they were wrong in forcing Dover to close down and to publicly apologise to the Dover ARs, their staff and the thousands of clients who were affected by their disgraceful behaviour?
Will the government compensate the business owners for loss of income and REPUTATIONAL DAMAGE due to the actions of it’s corporate regulator?
Most interesting is whether this story will make it to the main press and national news so that the general public are kept informed about what really happened with Dover.
Hello Everyone please read this important research
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/nsw/fee-structure-works-as-an-incentive-to-delay-a-case-20190212-p50xay.html?ref=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed
wow, research to prove that lawyers who are on an hourly rate actually drag cases longer so they get paid more.
Looks like you have put up the wrong link. This link has nothing to do with ASIC or Dover.
Every time I hear this it still grates me to the bone. Lost 6 months of income, business devalued, stress, depression, family issues, the list goes on. I’m out of this industry ASAP. Want nothing to do with it any more. Have nothing left in me to give. ASIC hates planners with a passion and are totally corrupt. And I hate them back. I hope it all comes out one day and every single player in ASIC suffers what we have and then some. Go to hell the lot of you. And there it is. Good luck one and all.
every single IFA whether they were with dover or other licensees feels the same way as you do.
So another example of sheer incompetance at ASIC. The lives of Dover advises crushed and destroyed for no wrong yet CBA planners fom Commonwealth Financial Planning…no problem. Are you kidding me. Is this what we have as a regulator? How can ANYONE have ANY confidence in this farce of government ministers and stupidly foolish regulators. WTF
[b]So let’s paint a picture here[/b], [u]ASIC have a chat with the banks and Kadava Ken[/u] behind closed doors, they reach an agreement to have [u]a little side-show to the main story[/u] at hand with the [b]objective to totally strip Terry, the business, its staff and families, its advisers and families[/b], [u]as well as over 16,000 clients who were not misled or deceived? [/u]
Wow. Surely ASIC has to be held accountable
Over the last 18 months of it’s operation, Dover recruited 130 advisers from the banks. Who part-funds ASIC? Who had the most to lose from Dover’s growth?
Follow the money people… Start explaining yourselves ASIC. This is huge!
236 hours / 20 days / 2 full time staff = 24 hours a week full time work hours in ASIC…where do I apply?
money for jam. courtesy of the taxpayer. fully funded. wine and dine. denigrate and humiliate. escape without liability leaving others in tatters.
accountability = 0
GO Terry Go. We need to ruin these asic turds professionally but more importantly personally. hope they are subject to the same degradation and humiliation heaped on advisers on a daily basis.
And yet another blunder by ASIC trying to justify their jobs. I hope a class action comes from this and it gets the Press in the main stream media it deserves.
set up $100,000,000 fighting fund.
each adviser contributes based on their ability from $5k to $20k.
we get the best of big law. mallesons, allens, king and wood. all of them. they will lap it up. (ruthless vultures)
we choose the (entitled and born to rule, i am better than you types), sandstone grads in their custom made suits, with $3,000 a dollar a pair John Lobb (nice shoes, get some), and then we sick them on the low life’s asic lawyers who couldn’t get a job at big law and had to go to asic instead
and then we watch them being devoured in total satisfaction, knowing balance is restored.
Doesn’t it feel great to be funding these muppets. 🙄
I hope the judgement to McMaster and the planners impacted by ASIC’s decision to revoke the AFSL make the compensation being paid by the Greedy 4 pale into insignificance. #Disgrace
ASIC is run by a bunch of commies/socialists who are out to destroy a market-based economy. They cannot stand telling their children that other fathers have made more money than them. Class -action against ASIC please!
dont worry, i’m sure that the fathers at asic are well paid for the crap job they’re doing
they shouldn’t be, they are doing a crap job.
ASIC have once again been shown to be a joke as a regulator.
It has always been easier to go after small businesses, licensees and advisers rather than the big banks and AMP where they know they would have a legal fight on their hands.
Added to this of course is the disgraceful act by Greg Medcraft in actively being involved in the setup and launch of CPA Advice in conjunction with the big-headed, all about me Alex Malley which cost CPA members millions of dollars and has now been shutdown as it was not sustainable.
This is even worse as it has been established by the RC that the majority of inappropriate advice and fee for no service (a term coined by ASIC which is not mentioned in any Financial Services legislation). This means that once again more regulations and costs are being imposed upon the greater majority of Financial Planners and Advisers who have always acted in the best interests of their clients even before the terminology was written into law.
It is time that ASIC refocussed on fixing the big end of town where the problems are most prevalent.
We can only hope for a miracle.
PLEASE, PLEASE – LAUNCH A CLASS ACTION NOW!!!!!!!!
This is a disgrace and miscarriage of justice.
will IFA post the article in your IFA magazine with Terry’s response to RC?…great reading and what we knew all along
My heartfelt sympathy goes out to all the advisers that were affected by this whole debacle. Many small business that were doing the best for their clients led like lambs to the slaughter because of an ill informed regulator that needed a helpless victim to look tough. I think this is referred to as bullying.
The facts are, Dover passed their audits repeatedly, no issues highlighted, no proof of misleading or deceptive behavior = shut down the licensee. That makes a lot of sense.
I really hope that there is compensation from ASIC for all those advisers that have suffered through this, both financially and emotionally with all the pressure that they would have faced.
The thing is, it will be the Advisers who pay the compensation via the ASIC levy.
Not only does ASIC put businesses out of business and ruin people’s lives, now we have to pay the regulatory levy to help them do this again in future????
ASIC is corrupt.
maybe not corrupt, but definitely incompetent
No. They are corrupt. Call it as it is.
no, definitely corrupt. incompetence is missing one or two things this stinks to high hell. totally contrived to take on someone who they think they could get away with.
as is the case in life, if you go against a bully the best thing to do is to hit them back harder than they hit you.
No, corrupt. As an example, ASIC staff getting and accepting free QANTAS Club membership and Australian Super’s current offer to new members. Another example is ASIC has never investigated Industry Super – what has stopped them performing this basic duty? Would it be entertainment received?
If this is true, this would amount to abhorrent behaviour by ASIC and extremely poor treatment of Dover , it’s employees and Terry McMaster. Many jobs have been lost , many customers have lost very good Fund managers and no doubt personal health of many people affected as a result of ASIC’s actions. I hope ASIC is made to pay for this to set an example that justice prevails in the end.
asic- only go after small players. people that will roll over and not fight. they expected dover to do same as all other small players they abuse there power on which is normally give up. look around/dover/port phillip/small afsls/ advisers/ small super funds same every year.
Time has come for Hayne, Costello, ASIC Head and relevant minister to resign. Trouble is with these things Shipton will be long gone before this resolves. We as tax payers will foot the bill.
hayne? i think it’s time for him to go to an old persons home
typical of ASIC now days panic from public scrutiny leads to rash actions against those that cannot fight back.
Terry after you win, we need to start a class action by all advisers against ASIC.
So, ASIC have shut down Dover because of it’s ‘Orwellian’ CPP. Unfortunately they haven’t been able to find anyone who was ‘misled, deceived or suffered financial loss’. This is what Terry McMaster has been saying all along. People were too busy criticizing him to listen…
Anyone who was a Dover Adviser when the license was cancelled has probably got a good case to go after ASIC. I can see a big class action taking place in the future. ASIC have got a lot of explaining to do… There could be a well-deserved pay-day coming up for all ex-Dover advisers.
I really want to see ASIC justify this one….. they don’t have a hope.
It has cost me close to $100k in extra licence fees and clients who left after seeing ASIC’s statements about Dover Advisers…bring on the class action
SMelly Kell also was on record for saying that after FOFA reforms, implementation of Opt In and FDS that clients were better aware of the fees they were paying, and were not complaining about them – so there must be a problem!!
My opinion is that man was sick and hell bent on finishing planners off one way of another. (Medcraft was simply inept, weak easily led and ultimately biased).
With ‘leadership’ like the above, and now their sick vile mantra of ‘head on sticks’, there needs to be a RC into ASIC and their relationship with ISA & Banks. If any are found recalcitrant, they should lose their accumulated gov super entitlements, and forfeit any pay received while in office – in essence that is what they have done to Dover and numerous others.
Because the last RC really stuck it to the banks, didn’t it?
the class action must NOT only name ASIC but all those involved in this decision personally. we need to name and shame them, and ruin them personally and professionally. an eye for an eye.
i am sick of the humiliation and degradation from ASIC, it is a form of abuse.
Surely a class action should take aim at the personal assets of senior ASIC members involved… just like what happens with Advisers.
The Counsel assisting that used that term Orwellian which was then picked up and used indiscriminately by every media outlet probably did as much damage as cancelling the licence.
Yeah, because faining a heart condition on the stand like a days of our lives episode was such a strong moment for the brand….. get a crip
Didn’t realise many doctors monitored IFA but thanks I will look up faining. Whether staged or not I don’t know how that’s relevant to my comment or the subject of this article.
Isn’t “faining” an ancient Irish method of preserving cabbage, compressing peat, or perhaps a dance step?
“feign” is what was meant.
this will be interesting in court.
And can the same be said of the Big Banks, AMP, IOOF, etc.
“I am also not presently aware of any documents tending to show that any person has been subjectively misled or deceived by the CPP, or has suffered loss as a result of any reliance on the CPP
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Sir it can’t and yet they continue with their AFSL’s.
Terry and the poor Dover Adviser’s, it always smelt a lot like an ASIC stitch up. And these admissions can only help confirm it.
So I have scoured the Royal Commission’s 3 volumes with no mention of negative findings against Dover, (the only mention was connected to big banks refusing to pass on reference checking). And now ASIC have decided they can’t find any evidence that the CPP mislead or caused any detriment to any clients. 9 months later can someone please explain why they blew up my business?
Because they are out of coffee, red bull, mother and Monster….and therefor asleep at the wheel…on masters orders.
Mate, get a class action going with your colleagues under Slater & Gordon, they are well versed in financial services and bet they already have volumes of prior examples of ASIC incompetence/corruption.
BUT, the class action must name KELL et al personally. they need to be held to account. i want EYE FOR AN EYE.
they need to be humiliated just the same as many advisers have been.
time for a class action. What a surprise that ASIC just goes after small businesses while wining and dining with the big end of town
What a disgrace by ASIC, they had no problems with Dover, but the close down the business, pity they don’t go after the NAB ,CBA, Westpac, AMP the same way. Of course they can not shut them down as they are to big to fight. any comments please have the intestinal fortitude to put your name to them:)
bloody hell
If ASIC displayed unethical behaviour, lack of proper research, failure to “know the client” and acted contra to BID. Do they get a permanent banning order or do they get to write their own press release with no further consequences. Asking for a ‘friend’.
Wow…didn’t see that coming?! 🙄
Will ASIC issue an apology now for all those advisers out of a job and go after some real criminals. Don’t know maybe CBA, AMP, ANZ, NAB??
ASIC is a bad joke!
A SICk Joke, to be precise (esp after blowing $100k on a new typeface https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-12/asic-spends-more-than-100000-on-new-font-and-branding/10802362?pfmredir=sm)
What does this all mean? Does it mean that Terry and Dover ARs have a case against ASIC? As a former Dover planner, the pain and financial loss was immense. Something sounds very suss. Terry/Dover ARs: can we sue?
can we sue? NO, you must sue. for total humiliation and loss of dignity. and that class action will be joined by every adviser. i have a good $10k to commit. asap.
I hope you can, but my guess is that you can’t police the gestapo
Terry shut down your licence in agreement with ASIC! The regulator issued show cause and terry chose not to show. I think you will find there is no legal case to answer. So before you attempt to sue a regulator, ask the owner and RM why he shut a licence down at the first sign of scrutiny? Perhaps it is Terry’s PI cover that might be claimed against?
Despite ASIC initially making a statement that Terry decided to close down Dover, it was actually ASIC forcing it.