The association’s executive director Peter Johnston told ifa that FASEA is a “bureaucratic indecisive disaster that is destroying the industry”.
“The ongoing FASEA/FPA fiasco has all the hallmarks of political trickery where advisers have been duped into believing their world is going to end with ridiculous proposals then the ‘white knight comes in to save the day’,” Mr Johnston said.
“In the meantime, adviser practice values have plummeted, stress levels immeasurably increased and family life disrupted by the unfortunate behaviour of some FASEA board members and their industry allies.”
Mr Johnston said the trauma to the industry could have been avoided.
“To viciously play with adviser practice values, livelihoods and mental health is unforgivable,” he said.
The AIOFP supports the recently released FASEA recommendations from the FPA, Mr Johnston said, adding that the association agrees with any suggestion to mitigate the FASEA circumstances.
However, he added that the FPA’s recommendations do not go far enough.
“The recent criticism in the royal commission around direct life insurance repugnant selling practices strongly suggests we need to wind back the LIF legislation and respect the critical role risk advisers play in the market,” he said.
“This should therefore be reflected in FASEA with the need for risk advisers to have a degree be abolished, a risk focused diploma is sufficient and they must pass an open book ethics and legal obligations exam relevant to their profession.”
The AIFOP believes market experience also needs to be acknowledged. Mr Johnston said advisers with over 20 years’ experience should be given 10 years from the original date to exit the industry, as long as they pass a legal and ethics exam that is relevant to the industry.
“Considering the time wasted over the past 18 months with indecision and bureaucracy, the legislated deadline of 2024 needs to be amended to satisfy the conditions. Advisers who are only PS146 compliant will have great difficulty operating a practice, maintaining a family/leisure life and then study full time,” he said.
“FASEA is a bureaucratic indecisive disaster that is destroying the industry. The minister should not be waiting until next April to terminate certain board members, he needs to immediately terminate the entire board, amend the legislation and recalibrate the process.
“Furthermore, associations that actually represent advisers not conflicted universities and/or institutions should be consulted to balance the perspective.”
why waste another 3-6 years of your life studying and thousands of $$ when some stupid bureaucrat or nuffy lawyer from ASIC can just take that all away from you in seconds and ban you for life effectively because they don’t like you or say you are not good enough in their eyes. Who are they to even judge. What a joke.
fair point, that’s what happens when you have numpties like the AFA and FPA representing you.
for god sake, those fee paying members, please consider a more worthy charity, it’s fully tax deductible and you will do some worthwhile good than paying these idiot imbeciles
[quote=Useless Masters]If anyone needs confirmation that FASEA is broken, look at their treatment of advisers who already have financial planning degrees. I have a Masters Degree in Financial Planning for instance, from a top Australian University completed less than 10 years ago. It’s not on the very recent FPEC list, so it’s not approved. I don’t have a second degree (ie. bachelors), so they want to rip several thousand dollars out of my pocket and hundreds of hours away from my family.”
Don’t give into them. Keep advising and don’t bother with a license. Let’s see ASIC or anyone else litigate if everyone deserts the industry. Breakaway from the con. Give the FPA and the AFA what they deserve which is a slow death by members refusing to pay for their mafia like tactics.
Charging coaching fees for general information if not illegal. Executing client instructions is not providing advice. No license required and no compliance to be burdened with. You only need 30 to 50 good clients who will gladly pay you for information (not advice remember). FU FPA.
This is already happening with so much available now in regards to on line tools, I agree firstly get out of the FPA AFA joke of a membership, being licensed now days is nothing more then putting your head on the chopping block and go and give unlicensed advice, hell accountants do it, property SMSF guys are doing it and not to forget the Barefoot investor has made millions from unlicensed general advice. Lets see the Gov pay for their useless public service ASIC without any advice fee coming in. SIGNED ABSOLUTELY HAD ENOUGH
Perhaps if you are a member you would know that no final decision has been made by FASEA. Have you read their submissions that have advocated for people in your position. I assume you will publically apologise the day after your Masters is approved. I hope more thorough research goes into your SoAs.
Wow. The Assorted Organisation In Financial Perversion have a hide. Their appalling behavior and this current Beacon mess is the reason we have FASEA. Wake up Asic and deal with these monsters before more people’s lives are ruined and IFA stop being a mouthpiece.
Spot on with the comments on Risk Advisers. Lets not forget that ASIC were forced to admit to the PJC that churn with adviser sales was in fact not an issue after getting the correct data from the corrupt FSC AFTER the LIF was passed. ASIC, O’Dwyer and the FSC’s behavior in pushing through the LIF has been nothing short of crooked. And the result will be more customers forced into the junk direct policies sold by the same crooked FSC members which we have seen in the Royal Commission to be a disaster for customers.
Yes wind back the LIF and yes have some common sense with qualifications for risk advisers and older advisers.
“Advisers who are only PS146 compliant will have great difficulty operating a practice, maintaining a family/leisure life and then study full time,” he said.”……………..Well, i busted my butt studying externally for 10 years whilst working this job full time, of which 7 years i was running my own practice. Sitting at home on the weekends getting assignments done and studying for exams whilst everyone else was sunning themselves at the beach. Well now it’s my time in the sun, except now i wonder whether i should take my qualifications and look elsewhere. The industry is full of consultants, compliance managers, educators – all feeding well.
Plenty of us made exactly the same sacrifices to undertake postgrad financial planning studies. But many of us have to do it all over again, due to a conflicted FASEA Board arbitrarily deeming our qualifications worthless so they can pocket government mandated coin.
It’s an outrageous scam.
The question that nobody can seem to answer….Is education or the alleged lack of it, the root cause of the issues the industry is facing? If you look at the most recent ASIC banning of a Mark Landau, an ex Macquarie Private Wealth adviser, this particular gentleman holds higher tertiary qualifications being B. Com, B.Ec, CFA, SA Fin. Lev and has been banned for providing misleading/inappropriate advice to clients and failing compliance audits……….
The root cause of all the issues the Industry is facing is;
Licensing of too many poor quality Advisers by most AFSL to drive investments/funds to in-house financial products.
As a consequence of that, a lot of bad advice was given. That’s pretty much it.
Yes , your right , there is no degree in common sense and ethics. What they don’t understand is that if there was , a pass would not guarantee anything !!!! but then what would the academics do ? PS what is 50 hours of CPD going to do that 30 would’nt ?.
All that the slimey ISA have hoped for and orchestrated towards!
Regardless of what we all think, FASEA is a reality. The REAL ISSUE is the time line to complete all the requirements. Get that extended to a reasonable time line and the pressure is relieved. Next item is to absolutely annoy the crap out of your local member and the new minister with a realistic approach BUT with a UNITED story, otherwise we will look like a mob of whingers and “” unprofessional “””.!!!!!
The associations could do this in a united manner if egos are left out and a stronger united front will result.
If the reply is silent, then remind them that their job is also gonski, about time we were the squeaky wheel and make our point very public in a professional but assertive manner.
I’ve been advising for 3 decades. Provided excellent service and advice. Never had a problem. Never duped a client, never churned a client, made complex strategies simple for them, utilise new technology, new strategies & products like etf’s etc. I had a humming client base, a good business that was running like clock work. Everyone was and is happy. We all made good money through thick and thin. The GFC was navigated to perfection by sticking to solid principles, holding hands and not selling out to fear and buying quality assets when the world was fire selling them no end. Buying Wesfarmers at $17, CBA at $29, bhp at $20 etc etc etc when clients would not want to do it but huge effort coaching and advising as to why has paid off for them in spades today. Huge capital gains and great income while waiting for those gains has occurred. They would follow anything I say today and understand why and know I’m not doing it for the money.
I have had a gutfull of the FPA destroying this once great industry via its self serving stealthy tactics. I do not have the time to study and run a business. Ongoing points were easy enough. I’m not getting a frigging degree or becoming a cfp to tick a frigging box and give course floggers money. No chance.
I’m leaving the industry. I will not sell my clients base (it’s worthless anyway, who would want to be in this pathetic industry today!)
I will retain a couple of dozen clients and still keep advising them, still manage their money and still do what I’ve done for them without compliance and without a license. You have destroyed the industry FPA and AFA and this is my middle finger salute to you.
I will advise people my way and charge them a “life coaching” fee. I will set them up to self serve and provide “guidance” as general information. This is the future going forward to rid myself and my clients of this ridiculous compliance regime.
RIP financial planning. It’s over.
the most important bit about your post is, “FPA and AFA have destroyed the industry” bowing down to their masters at the expense of well…. everyone
If everyone is serious about their comments on the FPA then do something about it cancel your memberships we need to have a united voice, and not a whinny voice commenting on new articles, i think it is time we stood together and cancelled memberships hell what are we getting for it and the huge amount of commentary here around going into life coaching and continuing to provide a service without a liscence is really what i see happening here well done RC, well done ASIC
last time i called for that i got 1 response. who’s with me, i have cancelled my membership. anyone else ?
i urge yet again, all fair minded advisers to cancel their FPA and AFA members today. once they receive 10,000 cancellations they will realise the enormity of the situation in which they have put us all in
Yes! Will all the grandfathered CFP members of the FPA please resign now. You will feel much better for it. And the remaining members will be glad you are gone. Everyone’s a winner.
Although many would like to cancel, you clearly do not understand that many of us are “required” to be members. Fix that problem and I will seriously consider.
you don’t have to be a member of the FPA there are many other associations you can join so you can maintain your tpb tax (financial) adviser registration, please do your research
Well Said Mate, have been upset, angry and depressed. In my 50’s what will I do? Anyhow, that’s life and we have to deal with it.
If anyone needs confirmation that FASEA is broken, look at their treatment of advisers who already have financial planning degrees. I have a Masters Degree in Financial Planning for instance, from a top Australian University completed less than 10 years ago. It’s not on the very recent FPEC list, so it’s not approved. I don’t have a second degree (ie. bachelors), so they want to rip several thousand dollars out of my pocket and hundreds of hours away from my family.
It’s a bloody disgrace. After 15 months of ridiculous proposals, which are out of line with their mandate, damaging to our profession and inconsistent with community expectations, it’s time for the minister to step in and replace the board.
Fees for no service – Kenneth Hayne style:
https://www.finance.gov.au/superannuation/superannuation-arrangements-governors-general-federal-judges-and-judges-federal/
I just cant see a way forward. I have been a planner 15 years, no complaints from clients and purchased a business with debt outstanding.That value seems to be dropping daily. I struggle to keep up with looking after my clients now and work nights, but looking after them is important to me in a timely manner. I don’t have enough income to employ anyone. I am buried in compliance and life sucks at them moment. My job is being taken away by only being CFP. It’s just all much. I think i have had enough.
Hang in there, friend. You are not alone. we are all feeling to some degree what you are feeling. As hard as things are right now, they will get better. keep pushing on. don’t give up.
Your not alone on your thoughts. Spot on. Perhaps the way forward is to drop out and set up a call centre selling any product. More money and only a good behaviour bond. How easy is that.
Or set up an online app flogging insurance to dead people
I suggest you start by finding some like-minded business owners of a similar size and forming a loose alliance. You might find that sharing resources and back office costs can help you.
Over Bloody Complicated O’Dwyer and her FASEA Buffoons wouldn’t know ETHICS if it hit then square in the face. The sheer arrogance of O’Dwyer is staggering and highly destructive, thankfully she is gone from the Financial Services portfolio.
There is a small hope that the new minister is willing to at least listen and make some sensible recommendations to FASEA.
We all want the minimum standards to increase but they must recognise past education, training and experience.
[b]Time to email the new minister on mass !!! [/b]
Stuart.Robert.MP@aph.gov.au
En mass
Rather than complain about FASEA and talk about gloom and doom, how about we embrace it instead. What would happen if all of us embraced higher education standards, set a path for the next generation to follow. What message would we send to our clients, our prospective clients, other professionals we seek relationships with, if we take on the challenge of increasing education standards across the entire industry. Will it be hard? Of course it will be, but this shouldn’t be a reason for us not to try anyway. The reason we are being dictated to by the politicians is because we didn’t have the courage to push this agenda ourselves. We have had decades to get this right and have instead chosen to take the path of least resistance. It is time to take control over our own destiny, and for now that means we have to suck it up, do what the government has asked, prove to them and everyone else that we are capable.
Unless of course you think that we are not capable, in which case doesn’t that prove the government right?
Chris, that’s a very black and white answer. I am disabled and can only work part time as it is. I can’t possibly find the strength to do another degree and still continue to work. I have years of experience and no complaints from clients ever. I realise my situation is somewhat unusual but really, why should I be forced out of the job I love. What’s wrong with sitting an annual challenge exam at the appropriate level?
Many of us have embraced higher education standards Chris. Long ago. We completed high quality degrees at high quality universities, and top this up repeatedly with additional financial planning specific education at an advanced level. But FASEA does not recognise this.
It is a myth that FASEA = higher education standards. It does not.
FASEA = revenue for course providers aligned with the FASEA Board.
Most planners don’t have a problem with additional study but the reality is that I’ve never had a client or prospective client ask me what my education levels are so the assumption that clients will trust us more once we “level up” is a nonsense. The vast majority of the public want to deal with someone they feel they can trust and the number of letters after our name will never build that, our ability to show empathy and understanding will.
Well said Chris, I like many others believe our education standards are far too low and we only have ourselves to blame for what is being imposed upon us. There are people in this industry earning as much as surgeons, but on a 10th of the education. You’d have to be delusional to believe that was going to be allowed to continue indefinitely without consequence.
I have embraced the challenge and look forward to 2024 when I stand beside the other colleagues who’ve done so too. It will be the birth financial planning being considered a profession by the wider community.
How’s the view from up there on your self-imposed pedestal Greg???
Its good and well for you to gloat from it about increasing the education standards for financial planners who might need to broaden their knowledge across ALL areas of financial advice but Risk Insurance specialists like myself have no need whatsoever to learn about managed funds, investments and the like when its absolutely worthless and irrelevant to what WE do.
Furthermore, there’s no return on the education cost and its forcing us to waste hundreds of hours on subject matter we don’t have an interest in when we should be spending it with our clients and our family.
By the way, if that’s the path you and other financial planners want to go down to earn the money you do, I have no issue with that. Kudos to you for every cent you earn.
What’s beeing proposed for Risk Insurance Advisers though is an absolute and utter debacle and in my opinion, from the many conversations I’ve been having with other advisers and insurance company BDM’s, who are also now feeling the negative ramifications across the industry, confidently agree with what the author has stated above…i.e. “FASEA is a bureaucratic indecisive disaster that is destroying the industry.”
It’s going to take years for this industry to recover from this disaster.
I don’t blame ourselves at all . If ASIC did their job probably, bad apples would have gone via planner and customer complaints 10 years ago . AXA was the one that tipped ASIC off STORM Financial initially but ASIC did nothing for 12 months . Anybody with any brains would see that a Townsville based practice with $1.5 billion in FUM in a relatively short time would be doing something different. Get rid of ASIC now !!!!
There are also people in this industry with much more university education than surgeons, taking home no more than the average wage after paying for all their compliance overhead. And many of these people are being sent back to uni again by FASEA.
Chris and Greg, not sure how much thought you each put into your motherhood statements but I suspect not much. Yes, education is great and name one (just one) industry that would not benefit from more education. I come from a family or well educated professionals and have a very good degree from an overseas Uni (better name than your I bet), have been in the industry for 20 years, have been doing additional education every year like others and am CFP and I might have to go back to school – not happy. You might be happy now – but do you believe you should retrain again in 20 years from now?
I just interviewed a recent graduate of a financial planning degree and she could not explain the principles of managing investment risk, assessing insurance needs or the super caps. I have 2 degrees so don’t have a vested interest in speaking out against FASEA. There needs to be accountability around what is taught in these degrees. They appear to be a money making exercize without substance. Ironically the same accusation that is being made about the financial planning industry.
I find that pretty hard to believe, John. While ive been in the industry for 10+ years I also just finished a financial planning degree. You cant pass without knowing those things.
Id say its more of a concern when I speak to people who have been advisers for 30 years and they cant explain all of that and they arent willing to learn it either. At least graduates we employ are keen to learn.
I thought we were past the debate on whether we need to lift education standards. Seems we’re not. Is this because of FASEA stuff ups, conflicted appointments…I say yes. The issue now is how we do this whilst a) encouraging people into the industry and b) why punish existing advisers with Finance related degrees and decades of experience. Version 1 of FASEA and the FPA’s original statement was a Bachelor of Financial Planning for all.
If you’ve been in the industry for 20 years and you’re only qualification is a Diploma of Financial Planning and your either a Risk or Investment adviser then I have very little sympathy (emphathy yes, sympathy no) and if you’re worried about this then just spend $8,000 and if having 10 to 20 years of experience you’d find that you won’t even have to even read the material to pass the exam with most Broke Uni’s. Yes a complete waste of time. The material is written for 18 year olds not veterans. A Grad Dip is a small sacrifice for less red tape and over regulation.
Well said all these people complaining that 20 years experience has mounted to nothing put your money where your mouth is if your experience is so vast and you dont require additional education then passing the exam or assignment should be a breeze,
No! The real reason we are being dictated to by the politicians and every other vested interest is because we DO NOT have a genuine voice to represent us on a united front. We are a pathetic weak target taken for granted over many many years. SHAME FPA and AFA. Thank god for AIOFP
Al those wonderful managers who had strips torn off them at the RC all had one thing in common . They were degree qualified managers on large salaries . This situation makes a mockery of the benefits to consumers dealing with someone who holds a degree . FASEA should be consigned to the rubbish bin of poorly thought out ideas .
I’m not sure that FASEA’s indecisiveness is the problem. The real problem is that much of what FASEA has proposed so far seems more aligned with the biases and conflicts of interest of FASEA Board members than with community interest and the legislation FASEA is supposed to be implementing.
The only saving grace has been the supposed opportunity for “consultation” to amend FASEA’s proposals. If FASEA doesn’t at least accommodate all the FPA’s sensible amendments then the Minister needs to immediately disband FASEA and delay implementation of the legislation.
Otherwise very few Australians will be able to access professional financial advice, and there is likely to be a messy inquiry into FASEA Board members’ conflicts of interest.
FASEA are just implementing what the govt has set out in the legislation. If there was no one from the specific education sector that relates to financial planning people would be complaining. they appoint people with experience in the sector and people complain because they suspect bias & conflicts. There’s no pleasing some people…
Does anyone else see the hypocrisy of Australian Federal politicians advocating the need for all advisers to undergo training in ethics? Over the past decade, all that we have seen from Canberra is a litany of Cabinet leaks, white-anting and back-stabbing. How about a course in Ethics, Morals and Values for all Australian politicians? I doubt many would pass.
Peter makes relevant points. Will FASEA listen? Not by what ive heard from others who have contact w FASEA.
In the words of Julius Caesar,” Experience is the teacher of all things”. FASEA’s annihilation of industry experience in a transition to education is throwing out the baby with the bath water. A staged and orderly transition is surely the common sense approach? But what would someone with 30 years experience know?
The entire industry is destroyed
Could not agree more, but is anyone going to listen!
So, the requirement for degree-qualified financial advisers is killing the industry and harming advisers’ wellbeing. Give me a break!
Sounds like you are tarnishing all advisers with the very same brush that is being used by FASEA, George. I’m guessing that you don’t work in the industry and that your livelihood is not currently under fire..!
You’re an id*ot. Even our Universities don’t know what is FASEA-approved and what is not.
FASEA Announcement
13th September 2018
“Guidance Note – Approved Courses and Programs
Following a number of queries from market participants, FASEA has obtained confirmation from several education providers that they recently released materials that incorrectly indicated they had FASEA approved courses and programs. This documentation has been recalled and those in direct receipt of this information have been advised that this was in breach of our previous advice on the matter.
Any further such concerns can be raised with FASEA via our Contact Us page and or the education regulators – the Tertiary Education Standards and Ethics Authority (for higher education providers) and/or the Australian Skills Quality Authority for vocational training and education providers.”
George, would you agree one of the best skills an adviser can have is the ability to listen and empathise with their clients?
Thank you – now the challenge is for the INDUSTRY to stand up (as ONE entity) to the Politicians who have no idea what we do and for them to to actually understand the “unintended consequences” that their decisions have created. It is just disgusting how honest and hard working planners have been treated in this way. We are now sitting here likes lambs to the slaughter.. waiting for the RC findings. We just need some leadership in this Country
PS – can someone forward on this article to Ms O’Dwyer and the rest of the other bozo’s in the Liberal Party for them to understand what they have created!!!
Being an “industry” is the very thing we are trying to move away from. Let’s all try and be a “profession” – even if that does mean some sacrifice of time and effort to obtain the educational qualifications which back up our years of experience.
I do not need or want the industry to be deemed a profession to make me a professional.
I am by the approach I take to my business.
John, thank you, but it’s not about us as individuals anymore, i am sure you are very professional.
it’s about the perception of our industry and the distinction between a profession and industry, not an individuals professional approach to business. there is a great deal of research on the topic, and substantial benefits to becoming and practicing a profession, as an example, self regulation
the treatment of dover and terry mcmaster is a reason why we do not want our dirty laundry aired for all to see. we need to manage issues -which all professions have – in a dignified manner so the public have confidence in us and our profession.
i have studied equal to most specialist doctors, yet i am held in the same regard as the used car salesman (actually, in all honesty they probably have a better reputation than me), and i am not regarded as a professional, despite the fact that i possess all attributes of a professional
You can tell the minister /s have no real idea of what disruption this is causing the industry and everyone in it. We should all concentrate our effort in emailing the ministers and show them the real disruption. We should get noticed when they receive in excess of 10,000 emails as they will worry about their re election.
Michael, whether you believe or agree with all the revelations that have come out of the RC or not, you would have to admit they do not look good for financial planning. There is no political capital that can be wasted by the LNP fighting to protect planners. What’s emails from 10,000 planners when there’s millions of voters who are pissed off out there?
This is how things are going to be, get used to it. Things will only get worse following the report being handed down by the Commissioner Ken Hayne and a Labor Govt coming into power. They will want to favour their mates at Union Super and we will well & truly screwed. It’s a perfect storm with the confluence of all these factors. Get out if u can, otherwise prepare to upgrade & improve your educational quals if u want to stay. Simples
Well put James!